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 Defense's mechanism.

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Caedes
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PostSubject: Defense's mechanism.   Wed 17 Nov 2010, 12:22

How is the defense bonus given by Peau Renforcee and Armure working ?

Some says it's a fix number final damage reduction. (2 and 5 ?)
But when you see how it affects Marteau Pilon I'm pretty sure there's something else.
Maybe the reduction is made before any strenght modificator and % bonus (MoA, MA).
Exept Punches what weapons get armor penetration ? All the heavy weapons ?

An other theory would be than defense removes some str from the opponent's attacks.
Making it logical with throwing weapon's defense ignorance.
Should test it with a high str thrower.

I still don't get why they didn't make it a % reduction by the way, would have be so more interesting ...
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xteenager
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PostSubject: Re: Defense's mechanism.   Wed 17 Nov 2010, 12:34

Turning a flash game into a science class is no good
edit, but what i know from peau is it reduce only 2-3 damage
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Tama
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PostSubject: Re: Defense's mechanism.   Wed 17 Nov 2010, 12:58

I have a very very very extensive knowledge of this. :cat:
I don't think armor reduces damages by a constant.
You mentionned marteau pilon. It won't be the same at all if you do it on a brute with or without armour/thick skin. It seems that fierce brute tends to affect it.

In fact I think defense decreases damages by a % or like you said str decrease for the opponent. Very good idea because it explains why shuri for example are not affected by defense.
I said it somewhere on the french forum. MA and heavy weapons have better armor penetration. Even a flail or a hammer don't ignore it.

Telling thick skin reduces only by 2-3 damages is way too simplist.
Flash game is a science^^! :study:

I have some fights of Seung recorded if you want. She was a high str thrower with armor, hercu and BF. Now testing a subpath with a flail and feline^^.
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Caedes
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PostSubject: Re: Defense's mechanism.   Wed 17 Nov 2010, 13:10

Quote :
Turning a flash game into a science class is no good

Information is the best weapon, specially in this game than just asks you to choose between 2 options everyl evel.
I'm sorry but when I play a game I want to know and master the rules, that's how you become a good player even if in this game it's true than you actually just need luck.

The class is optionnal, you don't have to attend it, no ones will call your mom to tell on you :)
I don't judge you if you just want to watch brute's fights without knowing how it works, please do the same for the ones this kind of topic interest.
This is how databases are build, and I'm pretty sure you've been using Twinpedia, Grizzli's weapon's glossary or just knowing than agility improves hit/dodge/combo a LOT. Am I wrong ? ,)
Without people like us you wouldn't be such an agility lover, so give back to Caede.... Caesar what he deserves ;D

Quote :
edit, but what i know from peau is it reduce only 2-3 damage
Doesn't, Marteau Pilon, Bombe, throwing weapons are the proof there is special mechanism acting here, that's why I'm thinking about a strenght reduction.

@Tama: I also noticed than sometimes hitting someone with armor, you will do your 1-2 dammages, and sometimes will deal out a random 7-8 damages. Seems kind of complicated.
Do you feel a difference with armure/peau and know just with armure ?
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Rico
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PostSubject: Re: Defense's mechanism.   Wed 17 Nov 2010, 14:34

here is all i know about this:
i have a feeling after watching and posting alot of fights that:
+2 Armure (from extra thick skin) is around 15-20 % decrease of damage
+5 Armure (from Armure) is arount 40-50 % decrease of damage

1- now the damage is caused by any weapon we know + hammer technic (exceptions are in Point 3)

2- i could not find any % for bare hand damage on Armure or Extra brutes, i feel it is variable somehow and not based on %.

3- the damage of these things in muxxu does not get affect by Armure and extra at all, throwing weapons like shuriken, noodle bowl, Piopio, Bombe and any weapon in the game in case they get thrown at the opponent.

look at this fight and you will see how what i said could be true (i am nut 100% sure yet):

here you can see the damages from kinguillaume (25 strength + Armure + Extra) on a brute without Armure or Extra:
http://labrute.muxxu.com/fight/108469477?chk=008e
Strength 25 -------> hammar technic damage on no defense : is 104
http://labrute.muxxu.com/fight/108423218?chk=a502
Strength 25 -------> hammar technic damage on no defense : is 100
Strength 25 -------> sai damage on no defense: is 27, 20, 21
now we can see the diffrence:
http://labrute.muxxu.com/fight/108447873?chk=1eb8
(kinguillaume) has Armure + Extra strength 25 and the opponent (Jalba) has only Extra and 27 Strength:
Strength 25 -------> hammar technic damage on Extra: is 84 <---------- Extra 15-20% decrease
Strength 25 -------> sai damage on Extra: is 18 <---------- Extra 15-20% decrease

Edit:
And here are some fights i posted in the Questions thread which match this topic too:
here is some fights to proof what and how armure and extra thick skin decrease the damage of hammer technic, Sai and bare hands:
http://labrute.muxxu.com/fight/103336620?chk=be33 vs no defense 60 with Hammer, 13-16 with sai , 8 with bare hand.
http://labrute.muxxu.com/fight/103337382?chk=3e05 vs extra thick skin 52 with hammer, 9-12-13 with Sai
http://labrute.muxxu.com/fight/103336111?chk=03ce vs armure + extra thick skin 28 with hammer, 5-10 with Sai , 2 with bare hands , 17 with throwing the sai

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Last edited by Rico on Wed 17 Nov 2010, 14:58; edited 5 times in total
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Caedes
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PostSubject: Re: Defense's mechanism.   Wed 17 Nov 2010, 14:49

I think it can't be just a %
I mean when your hitting someone with barehands like 7-8 and then 1 on a defense guy, something else is playing, that's why I'm thinking of a str reduction instead of a % damage.
Also I'll have to check it but I'm pretty sure than a 40-50 damages Marteau is around 30 on an extra thick skin, doing the same reduction as the one experienced by king guillaume.

I hope you're right and I'm wrong Rico, a % would add a lot more interest to those skills than a fix str reduction. Even if depending on how much is the str reduction, could still be really interesting.
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Rico
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PostSubject: Re: Defense's mechanism.   Wed 17 Nov 2010, 14:56

i edited my Post with the last 3 Fights with much easyer and lower lvl brute. look and you will notice that a % is a realistic Thoery. but i am as you still confused about the bare hands damage.

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Caedes
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PostSubject: Re: Defense's mechanism.   Wed 17 Nov 2010, 15:37

Your edit indeed put us on the way than it works with a % (%damage or %str reduction) even if the bare hands is a bit strange. Wich would makes those skills as good late game than they are early game. And required skills for any Immortal and/or Vitality brute.

Anyone getting those kind of data, please share it !
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Tama
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PostSubject: Re: Defense's mechanism.   Wed 17 Nov 2010, 17:19

http://labrute.muxxu.com/fight/107205954?chk=7750

I have found this on the french forum.
You see a brute dealing 11 bare hands with fierce brute and 1 without.

Someone said it like this :
Without armour, bare hand damage would be 7.
With fierce brute, 7 x 2 = 14
You assume armour absorb 5 damages.
With a little of luck, let's say you would have dealt 16.
16 - 5 = 11

I prefer to think about armour penetration and % reduced. My instinct...
What kind of Kitty's matchs do you want Caedes ?

Btw, I don't think a 40-50 hammer would deal 30 on thick skin. You need armour at least.
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mantis33
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PostSubject: Re: Defense's mechanism.   Wed 17 Nov 2010, 18:47

Rico nothing you say is ever true on this forum. Where do you get these wild percentages from? Armor does not reduce damage by 50% are you freaking kidding me???

I have brutes with thick skin and armor, according to you they are reducing damage by 70%??? HA! Not even close. I'm pretty sure thick skin means you take 2 damage off an attack and armor takes an additional 5 damage off. Throwing a weapon means armor/thick skin will not affect it. So basically, if a brute was attacking and it was doing 10 damage per attack to an opponent without thick skin/armor then when they attack a brute WITH thick skin/armor it will only to 3 damage because 10-5-2 = 3
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Rico
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PostSubject: Re: Defense's mechanism.   Thu 18 Nov 2010, 03:39

mantis33 wrote:
Rico nothing you say is ever true on this forum. Where do you get these wild percentages from? Armor does not reduce damage by 50% are you freaking kidding me???

I have brutes with thick skin and armor, according to you they are reducing damage by 70%??? HA! Not even close. I'm pretty sure thick skin means you take 2 damage off an attack and armor takes an additional 5 damage off. Throwing a weapon means armor/thick skin will not affect it. So basically, if a brute was attacking and it was doing 10 damage per attack to an opponent without thick skin/armor then when they attack a brute WITH thick skin/armor it will only to 3 damage because 10-5-2 = 3
please my fellow Member Mr Mantis , i would kindly like to ask you to read and watch every word and fight i posted here
http://mybrute.forumotion.com/new-muxxu-version-f25/defense-s-mechanism-t10828.htm#148828
and you will know where i got my Theory from. and if you dont like it or think it is wrong, then please ignore my post.
thank you
Greeting

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Darkervictory
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PostSubject: Re: Defense's mechanism.   Thu 18 Nov 2010, 03:49

Hahaha Thats the ric we all know and love he will ALWAYS have a fight for every topic Razz
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Rico
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PostSubject: Re: Defense's mechanism.   Mon 22 Nov 2010, 11:55

i found somthing weird today about the stone hammer:
some fights which show the affect of extra thick skin and Armure on the damage of stone hammer:

this brute has 27 strength:
vs no defense,
http://labrute.muxxu.com/fight/110133284?chk=1490 damage 126
http://labrute.muxxu.com/fight/110763659?chk=b59a damage 131
http://labrute.muxxu.com/fight/111030569?chk=ae7b damage 161 , then got thrown 75
http://labrute.muxxu.com/fight/111032976?chk=fd6a damage 158
vs extra thick skin,
http://labrute.muxxu.com/fight/110614407?chk=d2d7 damage 117
http://labrute.muxxu.com/fight/110762523?chk=0682 damage 110
http://labrute.muxxu.com/fight/110757573?chk=3061 got thrown with damage 84

vs Armure,
http://labrute.muxxu.com/fight/110614505?chk=c07b damage 141-149

vs Armure + extra thick skin
http://labrute.muxxu.com/fight/111028839?chk=72e1 damage 136

i wonder why is the damage on the Armure brute that high compared to the other fights???
i will search for more Armure brutes tomorrow...


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Last edited by Rico on Tue 23 Nov 2010, 03:10; edited 5 times in total
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xteenager
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PostSubject: Re: Defense's mechanism.   Mon 22 Nov 2010, 12:14

same happens with chuck
he hits 35+ bare hand on normal
sometimes 30-35 too on armures
I am pretty sure by now armure is NOT 100% effective
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Caedes
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PostSubject: Re: Defense's mechanism.   Mon 22 Nov 2010, 14:17

For Marteau take care Rico.
As said in the weapon's choice, Marteau is both affected by STR and opponent's endurance.

I'm going to create a database topic with all my record so far a bit later.
Will help find out some stuffs. (Armore, Str modificator ...)
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PostSubject: Re: Defense's mechanism.   Mon 22 Nov 2010, 14:24

but, im pretty sure the armure is not 100 % effective
and will post fights tommorow
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