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 fierce brute

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aimless628
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PostSubject: fierce brute   Sat 29 Jan 2011, 21:38

It seems like to me that fierce brute can ignore enemy's amour/extra thick skin/lead skeleton? Is that true?
i cant find a fight to back that up but i think i've seen it before where fierce brute does over double the damage of a normal hit on an armour guy
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Rico
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PostSubject: Re: fierce brute   Wed 02 Feb 2011, 17:05

no, brute fierce attacks has no diffrence compared to a normal attack on an armure/extra thick Skin/squlette brute.
fierce brute doubling the damage of an attack can cause a high rate of diffrent damages every time. mostly because of the high rate of diffrent dameges of all heavy weapons and the affect of "Master of Arms" on sharp weapons, there is no way to determine how much damage would be a brute fierce attack every time.
of cource bare handed attacks would have a low rate of diffrence than an attack with weapons.
in your case you have noticed that the damage was too high, in other cases it would definitely be lower...

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NixxxoN
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PostSubject: Re: fierce brute   Wed 02 Feb 2011, 19:07

Either case, Fierce brute is a pretty damn good skill
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PostSubject: Re: fierce brute   Wed 02 Feb 2011, 20:02

Yes, particularly with big weapons and especially with a net. When you've got a weapon like the flail where damage varies really widely, say it's ordinarily 30-60 points, then it's doubled to 60-120 points, you've got a huge range of possible damage scores.

FB can be really devastating with multi-hit weapons like knife and sai, especially since those tend to be very accurate as well. It also doubles marteau-pilon damage but it doesn't go away when you've used it with marteau-pilon, so you actually get two attacks with it. And if you charge it up and then use something like bombe instead, you've got it active while you're on defense and any hits you get in 6th/pugnace/contre attacks are doubled too.
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NixxxoN
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PostSubject: Re: fierce brute   Wed 02 Feb 2011, 21:39

i've got a flail+fierce brute+perseverant muxxu. She has other weapons but if she uses fllail, its an instant KO, and only can be stopped with a 6th sense. Weapons like the flail or the morning star are awesome because they do a lot of damage AND CAN'T be stopped by the shield.
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Tama
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PostSubject: Re: fierce brute   Wed 02 Feb 2011, 21:50

You can stop a morningstar with a shield. Flail is great because of multihit, you can even kill an increvable with it. :cat:
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PostSubject: Re: fierce brute   Thu 03 Feb 2011, 13:18

Damage reduction from armor is calculated after the 2xdamages bonus from Fierce, so it does more than 2x bonus damage with weapons without armor penetration.

You were talking about heavy weapons, and most of them nearly ignore armor, so the difference isn't this huge in the FB vs Armor case.

This point go in the direction than Armor is a str reduction (huge reduction for Marteau Pilon, Marteau, high str modificator low initial damage weapons ....) and applies after any % damage bonus (MA, MoA) ...
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NixxxoN
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PostSubject: Re: fierce brute   Thu 03 Feb 2011, 15:20

Tama wrote:
You can stop a morningstar with a shield. Flail is great because of multihit, you can even kill an increvable with it. :cat:

Are u sure? Im using a morning star since loong ago and I dont think i remember getting blocked by a shield... maybe some random time with contre+sai or contre+broadsword... but its very very rare



Also, i thought Armor reduced the HP damage for about 7-10 health points? and in any of the weakest hits that dont even surpass 10HP damage, it gets reduced into 1HP damage. So basically at higher levels armor is not very important, but at low levels is amazing.
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Rico
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PostSubject: Re: fierce brute   Thu 03 Feb 2011, 16:13

NixxxoN wrote:
Tama wrote:
You can stop a morningstar with a shield. Flail is great because of multihit, you can even kill an increvable with it. :cat:

Are u sure? Im using a morning star since loong ago and I dont think i remember getting blocked by a shield... maybe some random time with contre+sai or contre+broadsword... but its very very rare

the morning star can be blocked.
IMO here are the order of blocking from the unblockable to blockable
Flail > stone hammer, club > Morning Star > Hachet.

NixxxoN wrote:

Also, i thought Armor reduced the HP damage for about 7-10 health points? and in any of the weakest hits that dont even surpass 10HP damage, it gets reduced into 1HP damage. So basically at higher levels armor is not very important, but at low levels is amazing.
wrong, Armure or Extra thik Skin affect the Strength of the Opponent not the damage which will be caused.
Caedes explained it, but in complicated words.

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PostSubject: Re: fierce brute   Sat 05 Feb 2011, 03:25

Yeah, I tried to read myself and it's not very clear.
Ok so actually, how I think armor and FB are working (in easy words Very Happy):

Armor:
- Reduce the str of the opponent and not the damages:
==>Proof: High initial damage weapons almost ignore armor.
Marteau Pilon getting one of the highest Strenght Modificator for it's damage is reduced like hell by armor (even with only extra thick skin you can see the difference !)
Marteau (stone hammer), probably the higher str modificator weapon, seems to be reduced significantively by armor (any confirmations?).

- Any % bonus damage is applied before the str reduction:
===> Proof: MArtist than seems to penetrate armor significantely.
Any blade weapons with MoA getting the same effect, a bit less significantely, if you get a decent str (ie not relying only on initial damage).
FBrute wich gives the impression to penetrate armor.


So this is how by observation, with a set of differents facts, we can see how armor is working, and explain easily the situation you encountered involving FBrute and Armor.
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PostSubject: Re: fierce brute   Sat 05 Feb 2011, 13:56

Caedes wrote:
Marteau (stone hammer), probably the higher str modificator weapon, seems to be reduced significantively by armor (any confirmations?).

People are tending to underestimate armor. I think Caedes is the one closer to truth. I was talking about it yesterday with a friend from INSA Toulouse.
I'll try to keep my fights against Tanya and ask Chtony for some links to study how armor affects stone hammer.

With my experience, I would say the club is not that hard to block. I saw Suzy blocked it twice in a row with a shield and a mere knife... Maybe the morningstar is harder to block. :cat:

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PostSubject: Re: fierce brute   Sat 05 Feb 2011, 18:11

The club doesnt get blocked, but dodged Laughing

Also Rico, I dont think the morning star gets blocked easily, i really do think its very difficult to block it, from my experience. Only contre brutes can block it eventually. Btw I dont know if strenght helps a brute blocking a weapon.... And the hachet definitely gets blocked much more
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Rico
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PostSubject: Re: fierce brute   Mon 07 Feb 2011, 03:18

NixxxoN wrote:
The club doesnt get blocked, but dodged Laughing

Also Rico, I dont think the morning star gets blocked easily, i really do think its very difficult to block it, from my experience. Only contre brutes can block it eventually. Btw I dont know if strenght helps a brute blocking a weapon.... And the hachet definitely gets blocked much more
no one said Morning Star can be blocked easily, it just can be blocked more often than stone hammer.

and of course you need counter to block MorningStar , but you surely can block it without counter
the main idea of blocking is +45% blocking with shield and what ever "x" blocking rate every weapon has. and once the blocking rate is over 50% , there is allways a chance to block any weapon except (Flail and LEEK)

i didn´t think that someone had some doubts but here is MS getting blocked:
http://labrute.muxxu.com/fight/142110188?chk=f864
http://labrute.muxxu.com/fight/142081608?chk=3776
http://labrute.muxxu.com/fight/142100837?chk=1629


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PostSubject: Re: fierce brute   Today at 13:42

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