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 Brute League Proposal

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Luminous
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PostSubject: Brute League Proposal   Fri 02 Oct 2009, 08:12

One of the crappy thing about tourneys is that the 2 best brutes can be matched up in the first round and one is guaranteed to be eliminated right away. With a league system, we would be able to do a lot more matches and each brute would get a chance to fight a lot of different brutes which would minimize the luck factor and be a better measure of a brute's standing within a particular field of brutes.

There are lots of different ways to go about it though so I'd like to hear your suggestions on what you guys would like the league to be like if I were to host one?

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PostSubject: Re: Brute League Proposal   Fri 02 Oct 2009, 08:43

i would like to suggest that the brutes levels will start at 80 or 100.. then the first time you win a match (match for every seeds; so it would be 5 match just in case it's round 1) you level up by one. then for the next victory you level up by 2. for the third victory you level up by3 an so on and so for.. but if you don't like.. that's fine with me.. Rolling Eyes
that just came out of my mind. . lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Brute League Proposal   Fri 02 Oct 2009, 09:40

How many brutes should be in the league? just one league or two.. (first league, second ...) -> two leagues like soccer in germany :)

which brute deserved to be in which league? -> in the first time we can take the winner of the daily tournament in the first class. the runner up in the secend if they like...

on which lvl should the league Matches done? -> we can say the maches have to do in the lvl field from as example 25-325 and the "home player" (like soccer again Very Happy) decides on which lvl he want fight with the "guest brute"

-> my suggestions Wink
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The Dice Man
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PostSubject: Re: Brute League Proposal   Fri 02 Oct 2009, 10:33

Without having put too much thought into as yet I do like the concept. Here's some reasons why:

1) Some of us will never make 1000's of pupils to level our brutes to where they excel, so having them fight simulations amongst their peers is all we really have. A league gives us a way (over the long term) of really seeing how strong our brutes are at a given level vs a wide range of competition.

2) We all have brutes that excel in a certain level range and then become relatively weak later. We could now dust off those brutes and put them in the appropriate league competition and have a lot of fun with them.

3) We could have leagues based solely on levels (eg. perhaps 40, 80, 120, .... 320, 360, 400 +?), but I think we could also have leagues based on skills and level combinations (eg. Immortals less than 1400 at L200, Immortals greater than 1399 at L200, Brutes that have Triple T by L200, etc, etc.

I'm sure I could think of other good things about the league idea, but this will do for now.
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PostSubject: Re: Brute League Proposal   Fri 02 Oct 2009, 13:01

I really love the idea of having a league... I havent got any good ideas on how to run the league, but in my opinion it should be like the 128er tournament, that every forum- member has got the opportunity to put 2 brutes into of course 2 leagues...

everybody chooses his premier brute which will come into the premier league and a second brute similar to this into the second league...

and then perhaps 2 matches the week and when everybody has played against everybody the second half of the season starts and then the good idea of aylove comes into my mind who just said:
Quote :
we can say the maches have to do in the lvl field from as example 25-325 and the "home player" (like soccer again Very Happy) decides on which lvl he want fight with the "guest brute"
where the players who were guest in the first season now become the hosts...

only I think the level- field should start way higher.. thats egoistic of me due to my premier brute which becomes a beast late at level 140-150...

so I would choose the level field from 150 up to 400 or maybe 500...

but however it will be I would really enjoy it...

we even could think about a tag- team league where two members put themselves together forming an unstoppable tag- team like illmove14 together with profiles4n or something like that :)
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Reminisce
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PostSubject: Re: Brute League Proposal   Fri 02 Oct 2009, 17:03

I think a league would be a good idea
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Stsin
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PostSubject: Re: Brute League Proposal   Sat 03 Oct 2009, 04:58

Sharigan-justu brought up a good idea in an earlier thread:
http://mybrute.forumotion.com/general-discussion-f1/next-major-forum-tourney-t4201-30.htm

Sharigan-jutsu wrote:
I think, that would be nice to do a championship, just like soccer, one win=3points, one lose=1point, two rounds against every brute, than we need to set a limit of users, a limit of lvl's......etc
What do you think.

Cps.

I think this is a great idea. Everyone gets a lot of participation and would be actually fun to see how they fare against various type of opponents. This would be a large undertaking and maybe only 1 brute per IP should apply, which should be fine since no one gets knocked out early.

But I'd like to add that these points would be used for the regular season, to set the final positions for the final tournament (playoffs). Making it a four bracket would be nice. The top 4 will be in their own division, starting off against the lowest 4 scores, set up like how real tournaments are seeded. There's always a chance for upsets, so it's not a sure thing for anyone.

If there is a lot of participation, the final tournament can be set with a lesser number of participants. So those doing badly in the regular season don't get invited. But still can be put on hold to replace and post in place of DQed opponents. If doing this way, may allow 2 entries per IP in regular season.

____

Now what level?

While higher the level, the more mature the brute becomes; it's difficult in deciding the optimal level that everyone can agree on. So why not make each entry select the level they want their brutes to fight half of the matches at?

So when entering a brute, the applicant also has to enter the level that they would like to fight at. Three matches are done by first opponent's choice of level, then three matches by the second opponent's choice. The final 7th match will be at the level between, rounded down (or a random level chosen per day). There should be a minimum and maximum though. Say like 10-20 and 600-900, so it doesn't get too extreme. This would be great to find the all around brute of most levels.

Though I brought this idea up, I prefer a selected level...a high one Wink
____

As for number of matches. 5 gives a lot of chance to seeds, yet 9 and 11 can become a workload. I think 7 is just right. We shouldn't try to remove all luck as it's always there in the real tourneys. And I do enjoy and want to see upsets :)
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PostSubject: Re: Brute League Proposal   Sat 03 Oct 2009, 05:19

i wouldnt mind doing group play with the best brutes finishing it in a bracket format for 1 clear winner but i dont mind much about the format either way. mybrute is so random that its impossible to say which 2 brutes are the best(mybrute formula = A beats B, B beats C, and then C smashes A) so if you lose in round 1 with a great brute then you probably werent going to win the whole thing anyways.
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PostSubject: Re: Brute League Proposal   Sat 03 Oct 2009, 06:03

I guess the way I perceived a league working is a bit different from most of the responses I've read here. I saw a league competition being more like the divisions in boxing where we each decide that a particular brute we own belongs in the "flyweight" division, or the "middleweight" division, or perhaps the "heavyweight" division.

Example: the "heavyweight" division might be brutes who excel at very high levels (let's say 300-500). We all probably have a brute that really only gets good at a high level, this is the league for that brute. Some brutes are good earlier on, but you might choose to try him/her out with the heavyweights.

Another example: the "middleweight" division might be for one of those brutes that is weak early on, gets a good boost around level 100 or so, but just doesn't achieve much later on. The middleweight league might be for brutes that will fight in the range level 90 - 110 (say).

There might even be scope for a "super heavyweight" division where (perhaps) some of the Immortals might do better than most of them do now. Just imagine doing fights at level 5000!

Anyway, no matter how a league is structured I think it's a good idea.
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PostSubject: Re: Brute League Proposal   Wed 07 Oct 2009, 01:26

I hadn't read this yet, but Lumi, in case you were wondering, this is along the same lines of why I asked you if you knew of a tool to output the winner of the match given the input parameters without having to actually do the full simulations. I was trying to come up with a decent way of "seeding" tourney matchups to help prevent the big showdowns going on in the early rounds that really should be taking place in the later rounds where the fights *should* be more competitive. The league idea in a way takes the place of the automated seeding process by effectively making it more like other people have mentioned where there's a regular season followed by a playoff or in this case, tournament, process and the ranking from the pre-tournament matches determine the seeding for the tournament.

Lots of good ideas from everyone so far and the consensus seems to be that people would like to have multiple leagues or multiple divisions. However, people seem to be divided on what the qualifiers should be for these things. Ranking or Level?

While I very much like the idea mentioned by Aylove and a few others of having people pick their ideal level (either in general or on a home/away basis - the latter being more appealing to me personally), that automatically turns the whole thing into a competition for the best brute across a likely large span of levels and takes some exceptional brutes out of the running right there since they may be late bloomers or plateau early. I don't see it working out so well overall, though I wouldn't rule it out as a possibility for a certain type of league.

I prefer The Dice Man's take on levels, wherein there are different divisions defined primarily by level that you could enter your brute(s) into.

The other consideration is separate leagues defined by rank wherein there are different league levels (amateur, pro, all-star, all-world, all-galaxy, whatever) that a given brute may be moved between over time dependent on their performance... things like winning a title spot or having a very above average win % would get you bumped up to a tougher league while things like coming in dead last two seasons in a row would likely get you moved down.

A couple other thoughts...

1. As far as optimal rounds per match go, I think at least best 4 out of 7 should be the norm. The difference between it and 3 out of 5 spread out over a whole bunch of matches can make a significant difference. Plus the 3/5 just seems too short to me when actually doing them.

2. As a not completely off-topic aside, for something different in the future you may consider trying out a smaller tourney done in a round-robin format rather than single/double elimination. It definitely doesn't have the same effect a league (or league of leagues even) would, but at least it's a format that gets everyone to face at least a handful of others rather than just getting cut. It would be a fun variation.

I'm not sure if I helped consolidate ideas or if I made things more confusing here but as others have said, however it ends up, I think a league is a great idea. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Brute League Proposal   Wed 07 Oct 2009, 03:08

My proposal :

MyBrute League

Total number of players(brutes): up for discussion

The league would work like this. Each brute plays against all other brutes in the league. Now, each match between 2 brutes, the winner will be the brute that wins 2 of 3 combats.

Example:

Match 1

Brute A vs. Brute C

round 1: Brute A > Brute C
round 2: Brute A < Brute C
round 3: Brute A > Brute C

Brute A wins the match
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PostSubject: Re: Brute League Proposal   Wed 07 Oct 2009, 15:19

nice idea.

however the rules may be - i join Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Brute League Proposal   Thu 08 Oct 2009, 13:58

Yet another variation I thought I'd throw into the mix as more food for thought:

Rather than having one brute, each person plays as a manager of a team of their own brutes. Before the league starts each player will have to have their roster of brutes registered with the league and no changes can be made to the roster thereafter (limitations such as # of roster spots and such will exist as well). From here we extend the "home/away" idea mentioned by a few. Home chooses the level, away picks a brute from their own roster to represent them, home picks a brute from their roster, and then away is given the option of switching their brute for the matches to a different one on their roster. It adds a little strategy to the mix. There could be variations on the theme including home choosing whether they want to pick the level or get last pick/switch for their brute. Even without the multiple steps it sort of solves getting to use different brutes and getting to play at different levels though I haven't really thought it through all that well...

it's more fun to just spout out my ideas and give Lumi headaches. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Brute League Proposal   Thu 08 Oct 2009, 20:49

Quote :
The other consideration is separate leagues defined by rank wherein there are different league levels (amateur, pro, all-star, all-world, all-galaxy, whatever) that a given brute may be moved between over time dependent on their performance... things like winning a title spot or having a very above average win % would get you bumped up to a tougher league while things like coming in dead last two seasons in a row would likely get you moved down.

I like this idea as expressed by ESCGoat. It fits in well with the way I perceived a league competition working. We might have a brute we want to try out in the 300-500 league, and we all start out in the "amateur 300" competition. The better brutes move to the "pro 300" and the exceptional brutes finally end up in the "all-star 300" competition. Brutes would then move up and down the divisions as new brutes came in and out of the competition.


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PostSubject: Re: Brute League Proposal   Thu 08 Oct 2009, 21:47

good idea.. my suggestion is fight level determined by home brute victories..
Brute A = 30 victories
Brute B = 80 victories
Brute A [home] VS Brute B [away]
the fight level is level 30
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PostSubject: Re: Brute League Proposal   Fri 09 Oct 2009, 16:56

The Dice Man wrote:
Quote :
The other consideration is separate leagues defined by rank wherein there are different league levels (amateur, pro, all-star, all-world, all-galaxy, whatever) that a given brute may be moved between over time dependent on their performance... things like winning a title spot or having a very above average win % would get you bumped up to a tougher league while things like coming in dead last two seasons in a row would likely get you moved down.

I like this idea as expressed by ESCGoat. It fits in well with the way I perceived a league competition working. We might have a brute we want to try out in the 300-500 league, and we all start out in the "amateur 300" competition. The better brutes move to the "pro 300" and the exceptional brutes finally end up in the "all-star 300" competition. Brutes would then move up and down the divisions as new brutes came in and out of the competition.

as the soccer buffs would tell you, this is what we call promotion/relegation...and it works, well for the superior brutes anyway lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Brute League Proposal   Sat 17 Oct 2009, 10:49

I was thinking that making rating divisions like:

5-20
20-50
50-100
100-200
200-300
300-500
500-1000

...might be good. I don't see much point in going above 1000 since new skills at high levels become very rare and far apart from my observations. By a 500-1000 division I mean that a brute might have to fight at any level between these two extremes, same idea goes for the other divisions.

Within each division you could have an "amateur", "pro" and "all-star" league as previously discussed.

Let each brute fight in one division only so that some of the brutes that get good early on don't monopolise more than one division.
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PostSubject: Re: Brute League Proposal   Tue 10 Nov 2009, 19:22

any news on this front?

cause with Pege's current tourney I'm sure there's a market for consistent, day-to-day playing against each other. I know after my matches I really want another crack at fggfdg3 REALLY bad (YOU GOT SO LUCKY TODAY!) Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Brute League Proposal   Wed 11 Nov 2009, 02:34

gooberbm wrote:
any news on this front?

cause with Pege's current tourney I'm sure there's a market for consistent, day-to-day playing against each other. I know after my matches I really want another crack at fggfdg3 REALLY bad (YOU GOT SO LUCKY TODAY!) Rolling Eyes

I got VERY VERY lucky indeed gooberbm. Could you check if my points for Pege's No master T are correct? I'm not sure they are :|
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PostSubject: Re: Brute League Proposal   Thu 12 Nov 2009, 09:19

If we do create a league I am starting to believe that there is some justification in the separation of the BC brutes and the "hand made" brutes in different divisions.

The issue is this: Say I work really hard for the next 5 days and make and check 1500 brutes by hand. I "might" find something worth keeping that is competitive, but probably not.... Sad

I'm only guessing, but a BC user might easily be generating 15,000 brutes in that time frame and while checking them all is very unlikely, I bet that working hard and checking a 1000 or so of them a day isn't impossible.

My point is that it all becomes a numbers game. The BC users not only get to Brutal Legend status in the main game, but also get a huge advantage over those of us who plod along making brutes one at a time for our tournaments. It occurs to me that those of us who can't make 1000's of pupils easily are screwed no matter what we do :cry:


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PostSubject: Re: Brute League Proposal   Thu 12 Nov 2009, 09:25

/signed (the two leagues-thing)

but please don't blame "us" for trying to find the best brutes we can...
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PostSubject: Re: Brute League Proposal   Thu 12 Nov 2009, 09:41

bitchy bastard wrote:
/signed (the two leagues-thing)

but please don't blame "us" for trying to find the best brutes we can...

I'm not blaming, I would do the same thing you are doing if I could Bounce

I am simply pointing out that the playing field is not level and that with a league and division system in place we have a chance to create a more balanced competition. Fair enough :?:
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PostSubject: Re: Brute League Proposal   Thu 12 Nov 2009, 11:30

absolutely, I think we share the same opinion, just kind of misunderstanding each other :)
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PostSubject: Re: Brute League Proposal   Mon 16 Nov 2009, 13:24

I will check a League SYSTEM!

I have a friend and he is a REAL Computerfreak.

I have little ideas how i can creat a system on a extra plattform!

Need a coding for this!

I will check the workflow by my friend. And then i will let code a system!

A fight system that calculate the points when fights are done!

I must only find the right system how brutes can join to the diffrent leagues.

If was my english better, so i can wrote here myx ideas. But i think my english is not good enough that people can understand this!

I will post news when i spoke with my friend!

Greetz,

Pege ON TOUR

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