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 Level reached as a function of the number of pupils and days

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Sioc
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PostSubject: Level reached as a function of the number of pupils and days   Tue 22 Dec 2009, 18:49

I was just curious about the effect of pupils on the final level reached as a function of time. May be of some interest.
This chart gives the level reached as a function of time if the player gets a given number of pupils straight from the beginning and let them level-up. Moreover it is supposed that on average the brutes win 60% of their fights.
In the very long term all curves would ultimately collapse on the same level: so no point in having pupils leveling up, just useful to have new pupils all the time and have them to go up to level 10 or so... which is in fact obvious and already known to many ;-)
I leave this result without any further interpretation...

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Nasic
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PostSubject: Re: Level reached as a function of the number of pupils and days   Tue 22 Dec 2009, 19:09

100 huh? and over a year, pfffff ....well out of experience I can say that 6100 xp pups that lvl to lvl 2-3 will earn you 1 to 70 in 1 day Wink
levels after 100 will take a couple of hundred xp though so it definitly get's tougher no quistion...


Last edited by Nasic on Tue 22 Dec 2009, 19:17; edited 1 time in total
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HongKongFui
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PostSubject: Re: Level reached as a function of the number of pupils and days   Tue 22 Dec 2009, 19:16

really interesting... just flew over it and not to see if there are any mistakes. the blue line shows in my opinion the maximum that is "normal" without a bot.

nearly one year up to level 38 Surprised

curious if motion twin was planning that ppl will create bots! otherwise the way brutes are growing and at which time they start being cool and funny would be totally senseless :)

nice work Sioc!!
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Teethymo
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PostSubject: Re: Level reached as a function of the number of pupils and days   Tue 22 Dec 2009, 19:46

This is really fascinating. I am especially intrigued by the way there's definite plateaus in the same scale -- not quite logarithmic, I guess, but there's just as much space between 20 and 50 as between 50 and 100. I would also love to see lines for 200, 400, 800, 1600 and see if the same spaces appear, and whether the stepped progression changes after the brute reaches level 100. Despite what Nasic says, I've created about 500 pupils for various brutes manually, by unplugging my router and surfing wireless nets, so you don't really need a bot to create many more than 100 brutes. (Leveling them up, however, definitely takes a bot.)

HKF, I think that what Motion Twin was planning that players would recruit hundreds if not thousands of actual players by spamming forums, not by botting. Since the pupil system is built like a Ponzi scheme, I think they realized that some players would find ways around the IP system pretty quickly, a few might create bots, but that the vast majority of players would simply be out there promoting their game for them. If they had wanted to lock up the API so that simulators and preview tools wouldn't work, they probably could have done that very easily. Building a bulletproof IP tracking system would have been nearly impossible.
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Sioc
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PostSubject: Re: Level reached as a function of the number of pupils and days   Tue 22 Dec 2009, 20:46

A cross-sectional plot after 350 days for up to 100'000 pupils shows it is neither lin-log nor log-log...
If you want to play a bit by yourself here is the cross-sectional data at 350 days:

Number of pupilsLevel reached
0 25
1 25
2 26
3 26
5 26
10 27
15 27
20 28
30 30
40 31
50 32
100 37
200 46
500 63
1'000 84
5'000 165
10'000 222
50'000 447
100'000 605

And from a purely theoretical point of view, here's the chart with at most 5'000 pupils over close to 30 years (shows again it is best to continuously create new pupils):

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HongKongFui
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PostSubject: Re: Level reached as a function of the number of pupils and days   Tue 22 Dec 2009, 21:08

Teethymo wrote:

HKF, I think that what Motion Twin was planning that players would recruit hundreds if not thousands of actual players by spamming forums, not by botting. Since the pupil system is built like a Ponzi scheme, I think they realized that some players would find ways around the IP system pretty quickly, a few might create bots, but that the vast majority of players would simply be out there promoting their game for them. If they had wanted to lock up the API so that simulators and preview tools wouldn't work, they probably could have done that very easily. Building a bulletproof IP tracking system would have been nearly impossible.

I hope I can clear out what I mean with my poor english:

of course they released this game only to make players of mybrute let them do the commercials for them... people want to rise as fast as possible, so without botting and without self- creating pupils the addicted mybrute player goes out and spreads the "internet" (forums, chatrooms, whatever) with their brute- links and as an effect every new "bruter" recognizes first this funny game and then, that was the hope of MT the "bruters" start playing the other games of MT either...

in my opinion if you are really diligent you spread youtube, forums and other stuff and plus your hard working you are really lucky you might manage to receive 500 "real" pupils... half of them quits fast, half of the other half quits after a month and at the end the 100 users stay and level up... still you would need way too much time to reach levels when the fun starts (around 80 I think)...

I'm really curious what MT was thinking... or lets say the programmers of that game... they created a system in which some brutes need to reach level 504 to finally achieve the skill they need... with normal pupil receiving this mark is UNREACHABLE... even if the IPs were possible to use as often as you like: without a bot its IMPOSSIBLE...

so what the hell were they thinking?
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BobTheBear
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PostSubject: Re: Level reached as a function of the number of pupils and days   Tue 22 Dec 2009, 21:27

HongKongFui wrote:
I'm really curious what MT was thinking... or lets say the programmers of that game... they created a system in which some brutes need to reach level 504 to finally achieve the skill they need... with normal pupil receiving this mark is UNREACHABLE... even if the IPs were possible to use as often as you like: without a bot its IMPOSSIBLE...

I'd agree with that.

A brute I botted that is currently around level 240 and it took around 25k pupils (which still get trained daily) to get him there.

I stopped actively running the bot on this one weeks, if not months ago now. So all the levels gained more recently have been through the pupils levelling up. So thats 25k pupils, ALL doing their 3 fights, EVERY day .... vs weak opponents so they also have a high win ratio.

Having tried the spamming method myself before I discovered bots, I managed to get about 200 pupils on a brute in a week or two. But, I found probably 80%+ of the pupils I signed up didn't play past about level 4 or 5. 50% probably didn't even bother to level 3. But I captured them all through the forum thread I had running and his dojo. That was bloody hard work and barely got me into the mid 20's. I know of one guy who spammed his way to about level 50. That was pretty impressive spamming in my eyes!

So unless you spammed the entire world AND managed to keep them playing the game, no-one would EVER have any chance of reaching level 200+.

I guess this is why most of your bonuses and powerups are given out pre-level 200.

But as HKF says, why bother even extending the game engine up to level 500, 1000, 2000 etc etc ...... no-one was ever going to get there without a bot. Even with a bot there are only two on all three servers that are over level 500. (wasusuge & Stsin VI)

Does seem kind of strange thinking .... scratch

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Teethymo
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PostSubject: Re: Level reached as a function of the number of pupils and days   Tue 22 Dec 2009, 21:55

ThanksThanks for the updated chart, this one is VERY useful to me. Since I don't have an auto-create bot, I can see from here that 200 pupils is pretty easily attained for me (I'm nearly there already) so level 50 is doable in a year. Likewise 500 will take me a while, but over a year I can see level 60. With diligence and effort I could make it to 1000 pupils eventually, but that only gets me level 80 or so. So while it's nice to have a brute that's great at level 150, it would take me a decade to actually get there.

What I would be even more interested in seeing is not a block number of pupils, but a rate of pupil creation. If I can make 3 pupils a day unplugging my router, how long will it take me to reach level X? How long will it take me if I can make 10 pupils a day by surfing wi-fi points, or 100 with BC? That would effectively tell folks: if you can't use BC, you will be here, so if you want to be up there, better break out the wallet and buy some pupils.

@HKF and Bob -- I totally understand your point. The only reason I could guess would be if they had a business plan that included paying money for gaining levels in some fashion, the way they've rolled out the iPhone in-game store. I bet that once they saw the ease with which botters exploited the system they built, they wrote off that plan and now it's purely a promotional tool.
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Nasic
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PostSubject: Re: Level reached as a function of the number of pupils and days   Tue 22 Dec 2009, 22:00

Well I'm sure they knew that bots being developed for this game was inevitable so why not raise the lvl cap to such extreme measures to keep the hardcore players interested, the high levels of today do create the real competition and hierarchy of the game plus something to look up to, same with mmo's you look at a high level chars and all the new kids want to have cool shiny armor like him, the new people here see cool pets and a long list of fights with ranks on the tourney so they try to get/reach that,... even though it only brings them lvl 20 in the end, but still I do think the bots bring some nice flavor to the game along with their high level brutes.
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Sioc
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PostSubject: Re: Level reached as a function of the number of pupils and days   Tue 22 Dec 2009, 22:48

Quote :

What I would be even more interested in seeing is not a block number of pupils, but a rate of pupil creation.

Suppose you create n (one curve for n = 1, 2, 3, 5, 10, etc.) pupils every day and you play all your pupils every day (with the same hypothesis as before), then you'll end up with this:



High-res:



Now suppose you create n pupils every day and you level them up only to level 2 and then abandon them, then you'll end up with this:


Last edited by Sioc on Fri 09 Jul 2010, 14:26; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Level reached as a function of the number of pupils and days   Wed 23 Dec 2009, 15:08

Wow, this is really cool! It's amazing what a difference making just one or two pupils a day makes to your overall level, and what a dramatic difference it makes to level up those pupils. As the second graph shows, if you're making fewer than 10 pupils a day and you're not leveling them up, you are completely wasting your time. As anyone knows who has tried this without a bot, it's practically impossible. No one can level up more than a couple dozen pupils without a script, and leveling up a couple hundred without a bot is just absurd, it would take hours per day.

But if you do have a bot to do the leveling, creating just 1 or 2 new pupils a day can have a huge effect! Two pupils a day will triple your level. That's not that hard, and considering that you should probably be doing two master brutes at once to take advantage of each IP twice, you'll end up with two brutes with triple the levels you would've had by playing alone, and triple the levels you would've had by not leveling those same pupils. That ratio seems to expand a little the more pupils you create, but I bet if you looked at leveling consistently vs. leveling to level 3 only, you'd find a stable nearly 3-to-1 ratio. Of course, leveling to 2 represents a better model of behavior for casual pupiling, because you're not going to get pupils to level 3 consistently without a good set of level 0 brutes, and who has those except botters?
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PostSubject: Re: Level reached as a function of the number of pupils and days   Fri 25 Dec 2009, 19:49

hmmmmmmm interesting topic

my guess is MT knew bots are gonna be made
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PostSubject: Re: Level reached as a function of the number of pupils and days   Sun 27 Dec 2009, 13:49

nah don't think so... they just think we were gonna play this game to eternity. Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Level reached as a function of the number of pupils and days   Sun 27 Dec 2009, 14:13

i think mt didn't know that bots will appear,at least not that fast ,but now they like the idea because on the iphone version it's the same way of leveling up but it isn't a cheat... and instead of spending time u spend money
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PostSubject: Re: Level reached as a function of the number of pupils and days   Fri 29 Oct 2010, 18:32

Nice Sioc!!

WOW!! Takes too much effort climb high!! Razz
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