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 DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?

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HongKongFui
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PostSubject: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 12:27

so c'mon people, tell us your opinion...

we go on with this discussion: last posts


Last edited by HongKongFui on Mon 28 Dec 2009, 14:23; edited 1 time in total
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sam-ps
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 13:41

Where the agi-discussion appears, you'll have me there.

Can we start with "What is agi-monster?" first?

How many @200? or how many @300?

If you can accept 230+ @300, he is in.
http://dimluafmpwg.mybrute.com/cellule
But with that agi, compare to others...he NEED implace.

IMO over 245, the brute didn't NEED implace but...
We'll have less brute for discussing, I just knew 5 of them.
http://devis1on.elbruto.es/cellule
http://fjfnbnxp.mybrute.com/cellule
http://lum-bdm3bgq.mybrute.com/cellule
http://govavrmy.mybrute.com/cellule
http://red7hm3vg.elbruto.es/cellule

or we make it 240+ and let those 2 and many more in.
http://slap-080.mybrute.com/cellule
http://kaoru868.mybrute.com/cellule
Some more can join, if you choose this line.

I prefer 235+, a little lower but I need more opinions.

The reason to have the line is...we talked about "Agility-Monster"
Example : http://qdxaveke.mybrute.com/cellule
He's a REAL monster but not HYPER.

Give me the line please, so we can go on. :heart:
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HongKongFui
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 13:47

let's say the line is: level 300, agility 228+ Razz (thinking of dio-s4i)

but no, real agiloity monsters need 240+ imo @300
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harpyieklein
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 13:51

fine Wink

so if one thinks, that sabotage makes a(n) (agility)brute worse, cause it takes the opponent his weapons away & therefore he will be stronger with his fists, that's equivalent to the statement: fists are better than weapons

well...there ARE weapons, which are really bad against higher agi, as there are: halberd, BUMPS!, hammer & greatsword, but the rest is equivalent in accuracy or better.

the point is, that weapons give additional abilities as there are blocks/counters/multihits.
in addition to your 6thsense, pugnacious, tornado & general agi & str.

e.g. flail has multihit & counter
knife/fan/cup has multihit & speed
sabre/sword/frying pan has block
whip has multihit, disarm & counter

i once hat a fight with several rounds with 45! whiphits! okay, it's been with iluma ( http://sites.google.com/site/songphaicotien/cool-fights/what-a-whip-is-made-for- ), so there has been the one or the other additionaly multihit cause of his agi (no tornado @that time), but that would have worked on a strengthbrute as well, especially with iluma having a real bad speed.

you have to count the opponentdamage inflicted/weapon/round, calculate the average & compare with the damage he would have done barehandedly (without additional multihit).

BUT that's not enough, you also have to count the damage avoided by blocks/counters.

the problem is, that with you cannot know, if the block/multihit/counter comes from your weapon or from your 6thsense/pugnacious/tornado/general agi/str.
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HongKongFui
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 14:06

phew, takes some time to think about how to react on some imo wrong thoughts of mr. harpman :) however perhaps he is 100% right but we will never know for sure as this sentence
Quote :
the problem is, that with you cannot know, if the block/multihit/counter comes from your weapon or from your 6thsense/pugnacious/tornado/general agi/str.
is the truth of course BUT in these assumptions:
Quote :
you have to count the opponentdamage inflicted/weapon/round, calculate the average & compare with the damage he would have done barehandedly (without additional multihit).

BUT that's not enough, you also have to count the damage avoided by blocks/counters.

are way to many perhapses and so... overall a brute like koerper4812 as an example is most dangerous without any weapons! sure, the knife is more dangerous and the whip also! but that's only 2 of them...


after work I have the time to explain what I think :)
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sam-ps
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 14:07

I agree with Harpy with sabotage point.
Not because of his very long explanation Very Happy but...
"fists are NEVER better than weapons" IMO

But I think, Bithcy point is...
If you have to sacrifice skills for stat...which one?
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harpyieklein
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 14:10

not only the two, think of him using the sabre Wink

or the mace (100% accuracy in same conditions)

even the bone shouldn't be worse...

his strength is devastating, not his fists....
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 14:17

yeah, but the advantages you declare as belonging to the weapons you said are built in the fists either!! sure!
and if he is without weapons he uses this opportunities all the time! if he still has weapons he has to be very lucky if he only uses the weapons you told! he is in danger of using "bad" weapons! so without any weapons he goes best! that's what I'm sure about :)
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 14:26

no, exactly that's the point. they aren't bulit in the fists, they come from your abilities.

every multihit of your fists comes from agi & tornado
every counter of your fists (before an attack) comes from pugnacious (6th sense)
every block of your fists comes from shield/strength
the amount of rounds with your fists comes from speed

now with a weapon you have additional probabilities:

with a knife you have your multihits & speed from tornado & agi of your brute AND from the knife built-in multihit & speed.

with a frying pan you have the blocks from your shield&str AND from the pan built-in block.

with a whip you have your counters from pugnacious&6th sense and your multihits from agi&tornado AND the counters & multi hits built in the whip and in addition the built-in disarm (which impact would have given you -> highly increases the probability).
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sam-ps
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 14:47

Endless argument, it depends on style of people.
IMO more skills isn't hurt anyway.

From my research that I'll call it reallity, just for now.
Those are Agi-Monsters and skills they was missing.

http://devis1on.elbruto.es/cellule << implace&pugnace, 8 in total
http://fjfnbnxp.mybrute.com/cellule << thief&pugnace, 8 in total
If you want 245+ @300, you should mising 2 in row 2, 3.

http://schma.00015.mybrute.com/cellule << survival, 7 in total
http://slap-080.mybrute.com/cellule << implace, 6 in total
If you want 240+ @300, you can mising only 1 in row 2, 3.

Let's say If you prefer stat, you have to sacrifice 1 or 2 skills of that 2 rows.
Which one is the first and which one is the second? That's all.
You can add your reason but we didn't need the final solution, just sharing.


Last edited by sam-ps on Mon 28 Dec 2009, 14:49; edited 1 time in total
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HongKongFui
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 14:47

phew harpy?! that's all unproven assumptions some people on mybrutecheats and bestbrute wiki declare as the truth...

built- in skills in weapons... to believe that there things like that I want to read that as an official statement!

so many simulations against agility killers done, watching and observing, testing and testing and testing... the result for me at the end was clear:

there are some deadly weapons which a good brute may use to stop an agility beast: the mug (cup), the knife, the sai and the whip (and maybe some others I forgot) BUT:

the fists are as useful as them and have the same built- in skills (if there are some, I'm not sure, but for sure with fists you attack more often!!!!!), they only do less damage but you have them all the time and do not get interrupted by using the bumps or any kind of broad- or greatswords...

if you only had the agility- killer weapons (hte cup is the number one of them) I'd share your opinion... but there are too many other weapons...

of course there are weapons you more often use to do multihits: same with the fists! believe it!

it's not the knife that's got the built- in skill! it's some weapons that circumvent to use your ability!
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Negative Zephyr
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 15:04

You're not rating any brute... here..
Moved to general Discussion...
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tia-gf
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 15:06

http://devis1on.elbruto.es/cellule
http://fjfnbnxp.mybrute.com/cellule
http://lum-bdm3bgq.mybrute.com/cellule
http://govavrmy.mybrute.com/cellule
http://red7hm3vg.elbruto.es/cellule

all these brutes have high agility
but they also have a really shit name

that is my opinion
i wouldn't play a brute like these
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sam-ps
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 15:10

tia-gf wrote:
http://devis1on.elbruto.es/cellule
http://fjfnbnxp.mybrute.com/cellule
http://lum-bdm3bgq.mybrute.com/cellule
http://govavrmy.mybrute.com/cellule
http://red7hm3vg.elbruto.es/cellule

all these brutes have high agility
but they also have a really shit name

that is my opinion
i wouldn't play a brute like these
You can say "really shit" to those 4, they're bc pupils.
But devis1on is sevid's handmade, it's impolite to say that. Razz
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harpyieklein
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 15:12

HongKongFui wrote:
phew harpy?! that's all unproven assumptions some people on mybrutecheats and bestbrute wiki declare as the truth...

no, that's my unproven deduction after hours & weeks & months of testing & countertesting Wink
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alex0113
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 15:15

Does it matter a lot if a hyperagile doesn't have untouchable?
Is a brute like that worst than one that has untouchable but regular agility?


Last edited by alex0113 on Mon 28 Dec 2009, 15:16; edited 1 time in total
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AlnicZ27
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 15:15

sam-ps wrote:
tia-gf wrote:
http://devis1on.elbruto.es/cellule
http://fjfnbnxp.mybrute.com/cellule
http://lum-bdm3bgq.mybrute.com/cellule
http://govavrmy.mybrute.com/cellule
http://red7hm3vg.elbruto.es/cellule

all these brutes have high agility
but they also have a really shit name

that is my opinion
i wouldn't play a brute like these
You can say "really shit" to those 4, they're bc pupils.
But devis1on is sevid's handmade, it's impolite to say that. Razz

sam is right.... devis1on 's name is cool!!
is not shitty... (opinion)
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 15:17

sam-ps wrote:
tia-gf wrote:
http://devis1on.elbruto.es/cellule
http://fjfnbnxp.mybrute.com/cellule
http://lum-bdm3bgq.mybrute.com/cellule
http://govavrmy.mybrute.com/cellule
http://red7hm3vg.elbruto.es/cellule

all these brutes have high agility
but they also have a really shit name

that is my opinion
i wouldn't play a brute like these

You can say "really shit" to those 4, they're bc pupils.
But devis1on is sevid's handmade, it's impolite to say that. Razz

I agree... ;D
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 15:18

Less useful skills in my opinion:

-Immortal: your brute becomes a punching bag
-Thief: With so many weapons at high levels its not vey useful...
-Strong Arm: Heavy weapons have more chance of missing.
-Bolt of Lightening: Speed is the less important stat
-Hammer: Not so useful because you have a lot of chances to do it against a pet.
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HongKongFui
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 15:21

harpyieklein wrote:
HongKongFui wrote:
phew harpy?! that's all unproven assumptions some people on mybrutecheats and bestbrute wiki declare as the truth...

no, that's my unproven dedication after hours & weeks & months of testing & countertesting Wink

Razz same here Razz

we won't come to a point Sad

but take a minute to think about that one small thing: isn't it possible that there are no built- in skills? seems more logical to me that some of the weapons destroy the possibility for the brute to use some skills... and the weapons you declare as weapons with built- in skills are the weapons that don't destroy the possibility to use that skills... ever thought about that?
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PostSubject: i agree   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 15:21

NixxxoN wrote:
Less useful skills in my opinion:

-Immortal: your brute becomes a punching bag
-Thief: With so many weapons at high levels its not vey useful...
-Strong Arm: Heavy weapons have more chance of missing.
-Bolt of Lightening: Speed is the less important stat
-Hammer: Not so useful because you have a lot of chances to do it against a pet.

affraid I AGREE in my opinion too!!!
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 16:00

HongKongFui wrote:
harpyieklein wrote:
HongKongFui wrote:
phew harpy?! that's all unproven assumptions some people on mybrutecheats and bestbrute wiki declare as the truth...

no, that's my unproven dedication after hours & weeks & months of testing & countertesting Wink

Razz same here Razz

we won't come to a point Sad

but take a minute to think about that one small thing: isn't it possible that there are no built- in skills? seems more logical to me that some of the weapons destroy the possibility for the brute to use some skills... and the weapons you declare as weapons with built- in skills are the weapons that don't destroy the possibility to use that skills... ever thought about that?


well, everything we do here, is empirically, i can't prove anything. and for sure a built-in "ability" of a weapon can have a minus sign, but it doesn't negate abilities.

so weapons in- or decrease your accuracy, the hitting probability. you surely have notived, that even with with bumps you can hit an opponent @ a very good rate with an agilitydifference which is high enough in your favour, it doesn't negate your skills. another problem is, that bumps decreases your speed.

as i said, weapons can in- or decrease the probability of hitting, but if you take them alltogether, there are only 4 really bad weapons for a strengthbrute & you can't say that using fists is better. a strong brute inflicts serious damage even with a multihitting & speedy fan with much higher accuracy. or take sabre&mace, again higher accuracy. can't tell you about the bone & sword, but i think they haven't a lower accuracy than fists.

the point is, that the "average" weapon gives you an advantage whereas fists have no bonus & no malus, they're @0 improvement. weapons would only be worse, if they were in the negative area. so if a low-agi brute had only bumps, halberd & shuriken, you'd better not have sabotage, there you're right Wink

but the average brute should have an average weapon which is in the positive area...

and i don't even have mentioned, what all the weapons would cause to you, if you'd meet an agilitybrute in your range or higher Wink
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 16:23

NixxxoN wrote:
Less useful skills in my opinion:

-Immortal: your brute becomes a punching bag
-Thief: With so many weapons at high levels its not vey useful...
-Strong Arm: Heavy weapons have more chance of missing.
-Bolt of Lightening: Speed is the less important stat
-Hammer: Not so useful because you have a lot of chances to do it against a pet.

it is a joke right??
i agree with immortal, but thats all.

thief is a very essential skill, for example, if youre opponent is a hyper agility/ impl.-str-brute with longsword/ stone hammer in his "hands".
strong arm is a basic skill too, if you like a higher dmg-output (increases dmg ~50%++)!
hammer...: unblockable, most time i have seen in combination with fierce brute. nothing more to say.
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 16:47

Totally agree and WELCOME BACK, RudYy cheers

Very glad to see you, I didn't see your post almost a month. Razz
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HongKongFui
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 16:56

Quote :
as i said, weapons can in- or decrease the probability of hitting
that's wrong... tell me please which weapon lets you hit better than with fists?

with only your fists you have the best probability of hitting... then there are 3 weapons that come close (knife, mug and fächer), some that doesn't come close but aren't that bad and some really ugly ones...

let's stop it here... I will never believe what you declare as facts (like in that small quote in here) and you won't believe mine...
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