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 DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?

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harpyieklein
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 17:05

HongKongFui wrote:
Quote :
as i said, weapons can in- or decrease the probability of hitting
that's wrong... tell me please which weapon lets you hit better than with fists?

have already told you those weapons:

significantly higher accuracy than fists: mug, sai, knife, fan, mace, leek, whip & sabre -> they all have a bonus (%)

fists = 0, no increase & no decrease of accuracy

significantly lower accuracy than fists: halberd, bumps, flail, hammer & greatsword -> they all have a malus (%)

HongKongFui wrote:
I will never believe what you declare as facts (like in that small quote in here) and you won't believe mine...

selbst schuld Wink
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HongKongFui
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 17:13

hehe, selber Wink

Quote :
have already told you those weapons:

significantly higher accuracy than fists: mug, sai, knife, fan, mace, leek, whip & sabre -> they all have a bonus (%)

illusions... uhuhuuh ahaha illusions...
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RudYy
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 17:25

hej sam, i were at holidays in austria..skiing.
but now the nightmare continues Wink
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HongKongFui
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 17:39

funny thing happened in my daily fight (felt like the brute- god wanted to show me I'm right):

koerper pulled out the sai, tried to hit little dio 3-4 times but could only land 1 of them... after that dio attacked (koerper barehanded after the first strike), koerper blocked (barehanded Wink) and attacked little dio only with his fists... every single attack hit the target and dio fell asleep...

that played in my cards, but I was laughing out loud what never happens when I lose Razz
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Aylove
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 18:20

My Aylove has get sabotage with lvl 233 and he did better in the dayli tournaments after he get this skill, so i say YES! to sabotage. but aylove isn't a hyper agility.
HKF has a Hyper agility with sabotage (dio-s4i) he will be know how good or bad this skill is for his Brute! and he say it's bad, so i belive him Wink

But it's not easy to say it's good or bad skill..
in combo with thief, you can make you opponent weaponless very fast.. i like that idee Razz
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harpyieklein
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 19:11

he doesn't know what's good for him Wink my kaoru hasn't sabotage & i'd LOVE to have it...


demonstration of fists not hitting & knife hitting everytime except when being blocked:

http://oontack.fr/brutes/combats/index.php?brute_1=harpyetxeh&langue_1=elbruto&langue_2=elbruto&brute_2=harpygyatl&niveau_1=10&niveau_2=10&seed=

demonstration of fan increasing speed:

http://oontack.fr/brutes/combats/index.php?brute_1=harpyetxeh&langue_2=labrute&langue_1=elbruto&brute_2=harpyoemwc&niveau_1=18&niveau_2=40&seed=

demonstration of fan hitting every time & increasing speed:

http://oontack.fr/brutes/combats/index.php?brute_1=harpyetxeh&langue_2=mybrute&langue_1=elbruto&brute_2=Kaoru868&niveau_1=100&niveau_2=100&seed=

percentage of 100% from 11 strokes, 11 strokes, 11 hits - try to reproduce that with fists Wink

simulated every fight with NO seed, not that you say i've searched for ages Wink
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HongKongFui
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 20:00

lol @levels and still it's single seeds. could show you (@ realistic levels) the contrary...

but however, you won't believe it, I won't either... so save your energy Razz
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ALPHWON
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Tue 29 Dec 2009, 00:51

1st Row: Master of Arms, Martial Arts (a hyper agile would also have feline agility ofc)
2nd Row: FULL (nothing more to say)
3rd Row: Strong Arm, Implacable, Survival, Fierce Brute and preferentiably Sabotage+Thief
4th Row: Tragic Potion, Net+Bomb (optional, but they're handy), Cry AND Hypnosis
Don't care much about deluge or hammer but one of this two would be nice

And a handful of puppies with a panther (i like it more than the bear, though it has way less life)
Not commenting weapons because it's too dificult to only have the ones you love Razz

And i think that would make up a nice brute (hyper agile or not (well if it is an immortal there's not much you can do about it, is there? Very Happy ))
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Tue 29 Dec 2009, 02:43

RudYy wrote:
thief is a very essential skill, for example, if youre opponent is a hyper agility/ impl.-str-brute with longsword/ stone hammer in his "hands".
strong arm is a basic skill too, if you like a higher dmg-output (increases dmg ~50%++)!
hammer...: unblockable, most time i have seen in combination with fierce brute. nothing more to say.

Thief and Hammer work in a random way, its like a lottery, so they are not very good, because you can get great results or disasterous results that can make you lose the entire fight. For example, stealing a bad weapon, or hammering a pet (maybe even hammering a pet along with fierce brute)

Also, hammer skill doesnt do that much of damage in comparison with 3-4-5 hit attacks that agile brutes do.


By the way, IMO Bombs suck when they do 12 or 13 damage, they dont kill any pet. I'd rather have Cry of the damned or Net or Hypnosis of course. But it seems Hypnosis is not used very much by the brutes scratch
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Stsin
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Tue 29 Dec 2009, 08:45

I like thief, not because of reducing an opponents' weapons; but it makes the opponent unable to parry or counter. Even hyper agiles have difficulty in hitting a brute with a stick/sai/sword and shield. Stealing a whip is priceless. Plus there doesn't seem to be a speed penalty from first taking a heavy weapon, unlike taking one out on your own. My very slow Angelus Amo seems to get extra attack rounds from stealing, even heavy weapons.

Hammer is a great skill, even if used on a pet. Why, because it never misses and is a quick action. Why you often see a hammer done, followed by another attack right after. Going fierce before it can be devastating; not only is the hammer fierced, but the character remains fierced following it with a fierced attack. So since it is fast, even though it might be wasted on a pet, the skill itself is not wasteful. Better to use hammer on a pet, than a heavy weapon that makes you stand around. And for non-hyper agiles, it's a bonus since it causes your character to become weaponless and using fists instead. For low strength hyper agiles, better using another special, since the damage caused is relatively small and best to keep your weapons :)
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sam-ps
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Tue 29 Dec 2009, 10:25

Stsin wrote:
My very slow Angelus Amo seems to get extra attack rounds from stealing, even heavy weapons.
Do we get "extra hit" when we use thief?
I always think, it's normal...just only steal

Jumping isn't count...right?
And after we hits by the weapon that we stealed.
Do we get "our turn" again?
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Nasic
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Tue 29 Dec 2009, 16:54

Yeh I believe you get an extra hit from thief, once you steal the weapon you always attack with it afterwards, so if you hit and perhaps Tornado blows procs you hit several more times if thief procs aswell you get ANOTHER hit with your brand new weapon.
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Teethymo
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 04 Jan 2010, 16:25

I simply cannot agree that brutes attack better without weapons than with weapons. Some weapons are better than others and some weapons are worse than fists, but on the whole, a disarmed opponent is less dangerous than an armed one. I have watched thousands of fights by now and it is rare to see a brute do better without a weapon. Martial arts skill improves fists by a lot, and it can make fists more damaging than fan, baton, sai, even broadsword, but to extend that to say an agility brute is better off without sabotage is absurd. Does that mean an agility brute is better off without impact too?

First of all, blocking and countering work much better against unarmed brutes, and it's very rare for a brute to use 6th sense without a weapon. An unarmed brute charging into a brute with 6th, shield and lance is going to get pincushioned every single time. Fists are very easily stopped by shield, and their damage is reduced by both thick skin and armor. As Stsin already pointed out, an unarmed brute will have trouble blocking as well, unless they also have shield.

Sure, a hugely strong brute like Koerper will do lots of damage with fists, enough that she'll be better with them than with a bunch of small weapons, and she'll block a lot too. But that is the exception more than the rule, and if you're trying to decide which brute to play, the agile with sabotage/impact/thief or the agile without them, it's ridiculous to say the brute will win more fights without them.

Skills the agility monster has to have: 6th, pug, tornado, armor, skin, untouchable; all three multipliers (martial, master, strongarm); either impact or sabotage, preferably both; implacable, fierce, survival, potion, net, cry of the damned.

Stuff you can do without: vitality, shield, bomb, hammer, deluge, hypnosis, thief.
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HongKongFui
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 04 Jan 2010, 16:44

implacable? for what?
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Teethymo
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 04 Jan 2010, 19:40

Implacable is important to hit your opponent in case your opponent is an agility/untouchable brute just like yourself, or a speed/shield blocker brute. I'm in that camp that says implacable and untouchable are essential skills for every brute.
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HongKongFui
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 04 Jan 2010, 21:17

Teethymo wrote:
Implacable is important to hit your opponent in case your opponent is an agility/untouchable brute just like yourself, or a speed/shield blocker brute. I'm in that camp that says implacable and untouchable are essential skills for every brute.

that's what I thought some time ago.
but meeting some agility monsters in tournaments with my little dio-s4i showed me that implacable didn't help him!
fighting an opponent who only had 4 points more agility (high level, around level 250), dio-s4i with implacable and the other brute without it... you didn't even notice the implacable Wink

the other thing is that sabotage "problem" :) still thinking that it isn't an essential for an agility-beast I think I was on the wrong path thinking without sabotage is better than with. but no reason to not keep an agility- brute if he never gets it...
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harpyieklein
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Mon 04 Jan 2010, 21:48

for sure you didn't notice a difference, cause having more agi is better than having implacable, but you would have noticed a difference if you didn't have implacable or if the other brute had 4 less (or 10 less significantly) Wink

poor old illmove doesn't stand a chance without implacable against the highest agi-beasts, he needs his opponents to have less agi...

only if you had THE brute with the highest agi around, then you wouldn't need implacable, it really would be useless, like kaoru @320 in good old days when news spread more slowly & he was the brute with the highest agi in the tourney Wink

but if there is only one single brute with higher agi than you, you really need implacable to be competitive. besides, if it's your mainbrute & you play in officials, you don't want to face brutes having hundreds of agi more without having implacable Wink

govavrmy @9999 wouldn't need implacable, same with devis1on @a large range, but just because they are top of the top...
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Tue 05 Jan 2010, 07:57

HongKongFui wrote:
but no reason to not keep an agility- brute if he never gets it...
Sorry for my poor Eng, Razz What you gonna tell me? Sir
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HongKongFui
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Tue 05 Jan 2010, 08:23

sam-ps wrote:
HongKongFui wrote:
but no reason to not keep an agility- brute if he never gets it...
Sorry for my poor Eng, Razz What you gonna tell me? Sir

in clear words Razz ?

I would keep an agility beast with good stats and skills even if he would never gain sabotage Razz
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Tue 05 Jan 2010, 10:12

HongKongFui wrote:
sam-ps wrote:
HongKongFui wrote:
but no reason to not keep an agility- brute if he never gets it...
Sorry for my poor Eng, Razz What you gonna tell me? Sir

in clear words Razz ?

I would keep an agility beast with good stats and skills even if he would never gain sabotage Razz

hehe that's right, same here Wink


or in other words: wasn't bad that we've discussed this topic, so from now on you won't throw away agibeasts WITH sabo any more Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Wed 13 Jan 2010, 19:20

well,

if u want 245+ agi at 300

sam forgot this one
http://thfpn.mybrute.com/cellule
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Nasic
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Wed 13 Jan 2010, 19:26

Nice brute, only wished he would get survival instead of sabo @ 300+ though :silent:
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PostSubject: Re: DISCUSSION: which skills does an agility- monster has to have?   Wed 13 Jan 2010, 19:36

he is gova clone
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