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 What kind of brute do you like?

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Subman(R)
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PostSubject: What kind of brute do you like?   Sun 28 Feb 2010, 00:24

gaufferhoof had asked to rate his brutes in the other forum and started a lively debate on brute kinds. I found it very interesting the reasons why one particular style of brute is preferred over another. I like completes myself that are somewhat balanced.
http://brarxal.mybrute.com/cellule
http://stinkypain.mybrute.com/cellule

I have a agile that I like too: http://mba1625.mybrute.com/cellule

But with all my brutes that I raise they must have Feline agility, Untouchable, Implacable, and a Anti-pet near the level 200 at a minimum. The more skills the better. There are brutes with better stats but no skills and Vice-versa.

I look at brutes with the TM tournaments in mind. What brute has a viable chance of going deep into the tournament. 200 is now too low and I'm looking to now push the 3 over 250.

What is your preference and thoughts?

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PostSubject: Re: What kind of brute do you like?   Sun 28 Feb 2010, 00:48

ithink stinkypain
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PostSubject: Re: What kind of brute do you like?   Sun 28 Feb 2010, 00:52

Let me clarify. I'm not asking for "what is the better brute" but what style of brute is your preference. I edited to post title for more clarity.

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PostSubject: Re: What kind of brute do you like?   Sun 28 Feb 2010, 01:13

Subman(R) wrote:
I have a agile that I like too: http://mba1625.mybrute.com/cellule
He's more of a skilled brute with great agility (imo of course)

For me untouchable isn't a must, take a look at biceuri for instance, lots and lots of agility will do it.

When i look at a brute i search:
1)Higher agility than strength, higher strength than speed
2)1st row: only martial arts is a must for me (if he's got master of arms, HS, FA and vitality better!)
3)2nd row: don't care much for shield and pugnacious (if he has BIG agility..... Biceuri)
4)3rd row: any 2 of thief, impact,sabotage. Survival (now that's a must LOL), strong arm (quite common and good against impact, it also increases your damage), fierce brute and implacable.
5)4th row: tragic potion and any anti-pet(prefer hypno on this). they always get the net and bomb so i'm not commenting those. As for Deluge and Hammer, good if he has it, good if he hasn't got.

Though that's what i look for in a brute i think i like them all, look at this http://135826.mybrute.com/cellule ,one lvl from now he'll be a good brute (i guess....it's a shame that he only gets as i want him by lvl 800 :rabbit: ).

If i could raise a brute to be competitive on the official tournaments, i'd choose a high-agility, skilled brute

Think that's all!
Cheers!
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PostSubject: Re: What kind of brute do you like?   Sun 28 Feb 2010, 08:11

I tend to prefer balanced brutes as well with more agility, then speed and finally strength, i.e.:
  • Agility > Speed,
  • Speed > Strength.

Why do I prefer speed over strength? For a simple statistical reason... let's take the example of:
  • BruteA: Strength=50, Speed=20
  • BruteB: Strength=20, Speed=50
Both have the same total number of stat points. However if BruteA misses one hit it will have a more severe consequence than for BruteB because the frequency of his hits is smaller. This just means that *on average* BruteB will be less subject to the consequences of failed hits. Of course, BruteB will also be less subject to the consequences of lucky hits...


And why do I prefer balanced brutes over hyper agiles at high level? Because of the point of view of the efficiency of stat points (effective effect per stat point, i.e. multiplicative and not additive effect). For example:
  • BruteA: Strength=10, Agility=70, Speed=10
  • BruteB: Strength=30, Agility=30, Speed=30
Both brutes have a total of 90 stat points. In order for BruteA to double its agility efficiency (e.g. will be hit twice less often) it has to gain 70 points. With those 70 points, BruteB could double the efficiency of a bit more than two properties:
  • agility + speed (i.e. being hit twice less often AND hitting twice more often),
  • or speed + strength (i.e. hitting twice more often AND doing twice the damage),
  • or agility + strength (i.e. being hit twice less often AND doing twice the damage),
instead of only one (agility). Then BruteB ends up with the same total number of points (160) but with either 6 times more efficiency in strength and speed (60 vs 10) and 5 times less efficiency in agility (140 vs 30) or, 6 times more efficiency in one category (60 vs 10) and 3 times more efficiency in a second category (30 vs 10) and roughly 2 times less efficiency in agility (140 vs 60).
Of course this supposes all stat points categories are equally important which is not the case. That's why I favor a bit more agility than speed.


What I usually first look at is the total number of stat points strength + agility + speed.
Indeed if this number is pretty high (with enough abilities as well) a brute can compete with a higher level brute.
Usually my target for this sum is about 280 at level 200 and more than 500 at level 400. Of course this criterion doesn't have to be always met but can be approached only if the brute's other specialties are good enough.


For exemple this brute http://nicvcdwycww.elbruto.es/cellule is very nice from the point of view of abilities but has only 247@200 and 472@400. However that's still more stat points than the average (and that would be enough for me taken the great specialities of this brute - for me the dream brute!). On the other hand, if you take for example biceuri it has 245@200 and 480@400 (which isn't that bad), cometviking 244@200 and 481@400, and finally the "famous" vampirian only 186@200 and 345@400.
I'll take the example of a weak brute like Vampirian and compare it with for example my second BC brute (sioc-rkeuse) which has 285@200 and 535@400. At level 120 sioc-rkeuse has roughly the same number of stat points (and similar abilities) as Vampirian at level 200. This means that sioc-rkeuse at level 120 would be more or less on par with Vampirian at level 200 which shows a non negligible effect of high vs low total number of stat points (as a first approximation of course because I'm not talking about specialities, weapons, and pets)...
As for your brutes they imo all have a sufficient total number of stat points (Brarxal: 260@200, 496@400; Stinkypain: 271@200, 518@400; MBA1625: 244@200, 470@400).


Usually my target level is 200 for a first approximation, then 400. As for specialities I usually look at the following:
  • 1st row: strength, agility, speed, are must have. Martial arts and master of arms are highly recommended but not eliminatory criteria if the other stats are exceptional.
  • 2nd row: full row
  • 3rd row: implacable, untouchable, fierce brute are must have. Survival, strong arm, and thief are highly recommended by not eliminatory criterias if the other stats are exceptional.
  • 4th row: cry of the damned or hypnosis are must have. Tragic potion, net and bomb are highly recommended by not eliminatory criteria if the other stats are exceptional. Hammer, hypnosis and deluge are important nice to have that would for sure make fights more enjoyable to watch and may turn the scales in some circumstances... but those are not eliminatory criteria.
As for your brutes imo Brarxal and Stinkypain are only missing pugnacious and armor in second row (but they have plenty of other specialties).


As for pets, I only care about the total number of pets because anyway at high levels a single hit may kill any of the pets. I'm looking for a minimum of 3 pets at level 200 and 4 at level 400. This is imo a very important eliminatory criterion because a brute that has less pets will *on average* waste more hits by hitting the enemy's pets while the enemy hits, well, the brute...
I'd say that's the biggest concern for your brutes (MBA is the only one to have 3 pets).


As for weapons I don't care too much about them. Usually I try to avoid coffee cup, ninja stars, piou-piouz, noodle bowl and favor whip, sword, hammer, halberd...


And last but not least, after all as a final step most important is still imo the simulation fights. First one has to select a panel of brutes that one thinks is representative of what may be encountered in tournaments. Then for each brute to be tested one should run about 10 fights (with different seeds) for each selected level (eg. 100, 200, 300, and 400) in order to get a statistically relevant picture. Selecting different levels turns out to be quite helpful to get a picture what is the range of levels (to be aligned with the target level) where the brute is strongest.
Of course this part is particularly time consuming...


And finally just to remind that this is just my personal opinion, others may disagree of course... :-)

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PostSubject: Re: What kind of brute do you like?   Sun 28 Feb 2010, 17:19

lol

Nice detail! (Mr Stats!!!)

Personally, I like strength monsters. Just to be different.

Yes, hyper agiles probably do win more often. Super-strengths are more prone to upsets.

But ....

I like a brute that dishes out BIG hits!

eg.

http://diddy351.mybrute.com/cellule/ (my first BL on .COM and more tourney wins than any of my others)

and

http://bobthebear022.elbruto.es/cellule (has beaten pretty much everyone on .ES ... including ozqotivtnoob in a tourney final ... which takes some doing)

Not as consistent, but better to watch in my opinion. (When they get it right ... I still HATE it when diddy insists on using that stupid club! Laughing )

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PostSubject: Re: What kind of brute do you like?   Sun 28 Feb 2010, 17:28

Sioc wrote:

Why do I prefer speed over strength? For a simple statistical reason... let's take the example of:
  • BruteA: Strength=50, Speed=20
  • BruteB: Strength=20, Speed=50
Both have the same total number of stat points. However if BruteA misses one hit it will have a more severe consequence than for BruteB because the frequency of his hits is smaller. This just means that *on average* BruteB will be less subject to the consequences of failed hits. Of course, BruteB will also be less subject to the consequences of lucky hits...

the problem is *randomize*, even a speed-inferior brute can get one more round than the superior speed brute, it's a question of luck & of the round-cap for sure. on the other side strength is permanent.

when you say frequency = amount of hits/round, that isn't affected by the speed of a brute, that's only dependant on agility & tornado of blows.

speed only affects the amount of rounds/fight & if you have brute a with str=200 & speed = 50, brute b with str=50 & speed = 200, brute b doesn't have 4*rounds(brute a). you can see that in a fight lvl 4 vs. lvl 500, the lvl 4 brute also has its round, if it has got two pets Wink

that's why http://ibimcxmy.mybrute.com/cellule loses very often to less agi & speed & http://qdxaveke.mybrute.com/cellule is superior.
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PostSubject: Re: What kind of brute do you like?   Sun 28 Feb 2010, 17:58

I would prefer a high agility brute with Untouchable, Implacable, Cry of the Damned/Hypnosis, Tornado of Blows, Pugnacious and Flail/Axe. I have a brute that fits this description at lvl 300+(but no dynamic ip=no chance of reaching that lvl) No
http://drac-6lvup39.mybrute.com/cellule
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PostSubject: Re: What kind of brute do you like?   Sun 28 Feb 2010, 18:03

of course i love my Dev and new my dev (little bro of Dev) Razz
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PostSubject: Re: What kind of brute do you like?   Sun 28 Feb 2010, 18:13

harpyieklein wrote:
Sioc wrote:

Why do I prefer speed over strength? For a simple statistical reason... let's take the example of:
  • BruteA: Strength=50, Speed=20
  • BruteB: Strength=20, Speed=50
Both have the same total number of stat points. However if BruteA misses one hit it will have a more severe consequence than for BruteB because the frequency of his hits is smaller. This just means that *on average* BruteB will be less subject to the consequences of failed hits. Of course, BruteB will also be less subject to the consequences of lucky hits...

the problem is *randomize*, even a speed-inferior brute can get one more round than the superior speed brute, it's a question of luck & of the round-cap for sure. on the other side strength is permanent.

when you say frequency = amount of hits/round, that isn't affected by the speed of a brute, that's only dependant on agility & tornado of blows.

speed only affects the amount of rounds/fight & if you have brute a with str=200 & speed = 50, brute b with str=50 & speed = 200, brute b doesn't have 4*rounds(brute a). you can see that in a fight lvl 4 vs. lvl 500, the lvl 4 brute also has its round, if it has got two pets Wink

that's why http://ibimcxmy.mybrute.com/cellule loses very often to less agi & speed & http://qdxaveke.mybrute.com/cellule is superior.

yeah, that's the truth what I had to learn just now in the level 1000 tournament... I once claimed my dream- brute to have speed and strength equal but I thought I'd prefer more speed... that was not very clever as I know now speed is a strange thing... so often the lower speed brute attacks more often... like harpy said: strength is permanent so my wishlist looks like:

agility>strength>speed

and untouchable is a must Razz
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PostSubject: Re: What kind of brute do you like?   Sun 28 Feb 2010, 18:24

so now we're finally @the point that our dreambrutes are identical, you only needed some self-experience Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: What kind of brute do you like?   Sun 28 Feb 2010, 20:03

My post will be easy and will not reflect what actually happens, which is agility is a dominating factor. I like all around brutes, and have since I began mybrute last April. Two that I am partial to are first http://paingiver31.mybrute.com/cellule , which I sold a couple months back and my current brute http://slver73ez.mybrute.com/cellule . Both are all around brutes both heavy in stats and skills.

slapslap

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PostSubject: Re: What kind of brute do you like?   Sun 28 Feb 2010, 20:18

to say truth i LOVE him
http://bubcagua.mybrute.com/cellule
only 1 skill left but..... he reach 27 skillz at 3381
but he need high lvl lol!
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