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 Suggestion for next tournament !

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What level should we use for our next Championship tourny?
1. lower than Level 50
60%
 60% [ 27 ]
2. higher than Level 50
27%
 27% [ 12 ]
3. higher than Level 100
13%
 13% [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 45
 

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fotum
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PostSubject: Suggestion for next tournament !   Sun 03 May 2009, 13:47

We are currently running our first forum tournament.
And im sure some people would like to make a suggestion to make our forum tournament a better event in the next one.

Whats your suggestion/idea/input/thoughts ??

ill start, my suggestions are:
1. there should be 5 fights on each round (best-out-of-five)
2. finals round (quarter and semi-final) should be best-out-of-TEN
3. you can only signup for to 2 brutes

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ronga
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestion for next tournament !   Sun 03 May 2009, 14:35

1. same as fotum
2. It should be 9 matches or there's chance to have a draw.
3. Make it 3. Just the same as the first one.
4. Lower than 50 levels. Realistically we can't get to 40-50 levels unless you play for very long time. currently you can only get there by cheating only. I prefer max 20 level which consist of >99% of the whole Brute community.


Last edited by ronga on Mon 04 May 2009, 09:58; edited 1 time in total
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kazuya_gonzalez
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestion for next tournament !   Sun 03 May 2009, 15:56

1. same as fotum
2. best out of five for all round include finals
3. only one brute.
4. prefer 25 / 30 for next tourney
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestion for next tournament !   Sun 03 May 2009, 16:46

2 Brutes max sounds good
I like best out of 3
Level 25 or 30 sounds good.

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PostSubject: Re: Suggestion for next tournament !   Sun 03 May 2009, 16:56

1.best of 5 seems better
2.finals best of 10
3. two brutes max to keep it a bit shorter
4.level 20-30 seems more fair unless we are just going for pure fun to see who whomps who
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natshuba
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestion for next tournament !   Sun 03 May 2009, 17:28

1.best of 3
2.best of 5
3. two brutes max to keep it a bit shorter
4. but i vote for lvl 100 ++. cause it will be really fun to watch n also excited to watch.
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestion for next tournament !   Sun 03 May 2009, 19:08

i say lvl 35
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestion for next tournament !   Sun 03 May 2009, 19:58

1.there should be 3 fights on each round (best-out-of-tree)
2. finals round (semi-final and final) should be best-out-of-five)
3. you can only signup for to 2 brutes
4.Every round before final brutes should be lvl 30
5.Finals can be lvl 70(for fun)
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heroinmonkey
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestion for next tournament !   Sun 03 May 2009, 20:16

I am on working on something pretty cool for how to do next months tourney.
Still ironing out the details and once completed I will post in the Arena section.

Fotum- You should move Arena to it's own section and give it 2 subsections.
Section 1- Arena Challenges
Section 2- Monthly Tournaments.



Brute League:
http://mybrute.forumotion.com/arena-f10/my-brute-league-proposal-t1012.htm

Tourney Proposal based off Brute League:
http://mybrute.forumotion.com/arena-f10/my-brute-tourney-proposal-t1015.htm
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestion for next tournament !   Mon 04 May 2009, 01:57

higher than lvl 100

so the real battle beggins
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fotum
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestion for next tournament !   Mon 04 May 2009, 08:34

heroinmonkey brought up a good suggestion, however i have my own reason for this.

fotum wrote:
heroinmonkey wrote:
Why were the seeds changed for round 2?
For continuity the seeds should've remained the same because the new seeds may have had different results for round 1.
the seeds has to be changed for each round. Or otherwise as the players get fewer in the upcoming rounds, they can predict their results ahead of time.
ie. players will get fewer in the next couple of rounds. if we keep using the same seeds. users wont have to wait for me to announce the pairings. he/she would just have to simulate the fights against all other players in the pool using that seed number. he can predict who will win the tourny by himself.

if the seeds keep changing every round, everyone have to wait for the seeds being assigned first before they can begin the fight.

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PostSubject: Re: Suggestion for next tournament !   Mon 04 May 2009, 09:12

Anything lower or equal to Lv.50 is fine with me
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestion for next tournament !   Mon 04 May 2009, 14:11

Changing the seeds every round presents a huge flaw.
Predictability: If someone wants to run 4,000 simulator fights (since the pairings are randomized) more power to them.

Changing the seeds each round invalidates the previous round because the outcomes with the new seeds may not have put them in the current round with the new seeds.

As far as predicting when the contestants get fewer is why you should add seeds (not create new ones).

How seeds should be determined:
contestants.
2: 7 seeds (Best of 7) (2 seeds added)
4 - 16: contestants 5 seeds (Best of 5) (2 seeds added)
32+: 3 seeds (Best of 3) (Same seeds)
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestion for next tournament !   Mon 04 May 2009, 14:14

i think herion got a point
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kazuya_gonzalez
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestion for next tournament !   Mon 04 May 2009, 14:14

heroinmonkey wrote:
Changing the seeds every round presents a huge flaw.
Predictability: If someone wants to run 4,000 simulator fights (since the pairings are randomized) more power to them.

Changing the seeds each round invalidates the previous round because the outcomes with the new seeds may not have put them in the current round with the new seeds.

As far as predicting when the contestants get fewer is why you should add seeds (not create new ones).

How seeds should be determined:
contestants.
2: 7 seeds (Best of 7) (2 seeds added)
4 - 16: contestants 5 seeds (Best of 5) (2 seeds added)
32+: 3 seeds (Best of 3) (Same seeds)

not everything u suggested is right.. in this case i agree with fotum

just make a poll to see u right or not

i think fotum realy wants a RANDOM result by changing seed and not predicted..

so i think fotum got a point too
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestion for next tournament !   Mon 04 May 2009, 14:20

If you're going to tell me I'm wrong then please explain why you think I am wrong, just saying I'm wrong doesn't invalidate the points made.

If you want to disprove me then rerun round 2 using the same seeds from round 1 and if just one fight turns out differently then that proves my point is correct and the current tourney invalidates itself because it's now a chaos based tourney which can be done alot quicker by doing the following:

Randomly select 2 of the contestants and create 3 seeds and best of 3 wins the tourney as the result is no different than changing the seeds each round because the criteria used to put the brute into the next round is no longer valid.
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kazuya_gonzalez
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestion for next tournament !   Mon 04 May 2009, 14:28

heroinmonkey wrote:
If you're going to tell me I'm wrong then please explain why you think I am wrong, just saying I'm wrong doesn't invalidate the points made.

If you want to disprove me then rerun round 2 using the same seeds from round 1 and if just one fight turns out differently then that proves my suggestion is correct.

don't be mad, am i telling u are wrong?

i just didn't agree with u

i agree with fotum method.. thats all..

just like i said, i likes RANDOM method that fotum use is that wrong? and i must use ur method?
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestion for next tournament !   Mon 04 May 2009, 14:39

i dont think you get my point, heroinmonkey.
the reason that we are using random seeds is that no one can predict who they are going to fight next and the result of that fight.

i dont see any flaw of using random seeds as oppose of using the same seeds.
randomizing the seeds will not affect the outcome of the fight, so therefore it wont invalidated the previous round's result.

if we keep using the same seeds, well why dont we rename our tournament to Level 50 Championship of Seed 12, 54, 615.

Since, you are trying to find which level 50 brutes is the best among us if we are using seeds 12, 54, 615.
thats not the point of the tourny, is it?

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PostSubject: Re: Suggestion for next tournament !   Mon 04 May 2009, 14:51

About seed number, the current ones are very unrealistic. The server never generates such a low. 2-digit seed number. Rethink how to pick a random seed number to a point that sticks with how the real tournaments (MyBrute) works. The server generates seed number randomly with 5-6 digits. We should pick seed number with 5-6 digits too. The simulator isn't 100% accurate. We want to keep it as close as possible.

Here's an example. If you look at the stats, daior is clearly stronger.
But it lose all fights in low seed numbers!

Seed 25:
http://brutetools.netau.net/outils/sdcs-on.php?seed=25&brutea1=daior&brutea2=&bruteb1=1925-0815-04a&bruteb2=&niveaua1=50&niveaua2=&niveaub1=50&niveaub2=&languea1=mybrute&languea2=labrute&langueb1=mybrute&langueb2=labrute

10:
http://brutetools.netau.net/outils/sdcs-on.php?seed=10&brutea1=waide&brutea2=&bruteb1=r4nd0mcr4p729&bruteb2=&niveaua1=50&niveaua2=&niveaub1=50&niveaub2=&languea1=mybrute&languea2=labrute&langueb1=mybrute&langueb2=labrute

76:
http://brutetools.netau.net/outils/sdcs-on.php?seed=76&brutea1=daior&brutea2=&bruteb1=1925-0815-04a&bruteb2=&niveaua1=50&niveaua2=&niveaub1=50&niveaub2=&languea1=mybrute&languea2=labrute&langueb1=mybrute&langueb2=labrute


Tried six times, win six times.

Seed 134566:
http://brutetools.netau.net/outils/sdcs-on.php?seed=134566&brutea1=daior&bruteb1=1925-0815-04a&niveaua1=50&niveaub1=50&languea1=mybrute&langueb1=mybrute&brutea2=&bruteb2=&niveaua2=&niveaub2=&languea2=labrute&langueb2=labrute

157390:
http://brutetools.netau.net/outils/sdcs-on.php?seed=157390&brutea1=daior&bruteb1=1925-0815-04a&niveaua1=50&niveaub1=50&languea1=mybrute&langueb1=mybrute&brutea2=&bruteb2=&niveaua2=&niveaub2=&languea2=labrute&langueb2=labrute

201124:
http://brutetools.netau.net/outils/sdcs-on.php?seed=201124&brutea1=daior&bruteb1=1925-0815-04a&niveaua1=50&niveaub1=50&languea1=mybrute&langueb1=mybrute&brutea2=&bruteb2=&niveaua2=&niveaub2=&languea2=labrute&langueb2=labrute

237866:
http://brutetools.netau.net/outils/sdcs-on.php?seed=237866&brutea1=daior&bruteb1=1925-0815-04a&niveaua1=50&niveaub1=50&languea1=mybrute&langueb1=mybrute&brutea2=&bruteb2=&niveaua2=&niveaub2=&languea2=labrute&langueb2=labrute

357689:
http://brutetools.netau.net/outils/sdcs-on.php?seed=357689&brutea1=daior&bruteb1=1925-0815-04a&niveaua1=50&niveaub1=50&languea1=mybrute&langueb1=mybrute&brutea2=&bruteb2=&niveaua2=&niveaub2=&languea2=labrute&langueb2=labrute

465298:
http://brutetools.netau.net/outils/sdcs-on.php?seed=465298&brutea1=daior&bruteb1=1925-0815-04a&niveaua1=50&niveaub1=50&languea1=mybrute&langueb1=mybrute&brutea2=&bruteb2=&niveaua2=&niveaub2=&languea2=labrute&langueb2=labrute

I'm not sure if it's solely coincidence. But it appears the chance of winning is lower in utterly low seed numbers, higher in high seed numbers. Anyway don't take me for that. The sampling size is too small. But this result is kinda funny anyway.

After all, since high seed numbers, that is seed numbers in 5-6 digits, are what server generates.
We should use seed numbers of 5-6 digits
.


Last edited by ronga on Mon 04 May 2009, 15:12; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestion for next tournament !   Mon 04 May 2009, 14:57

haha if u look at the stat , the stronger ones will be win it wouldn't be random ^_^

dont use only 5-6 digit..

just use random program that choose between 1-6 digit.. i think its fair enough
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestion for next tournament !   Mon 04 May 2009, 14:58

You are invalidating the previous round by changing the seeds, that's simple logic because you're in essence changing the criteria required in order to advance each round. So for all intended purposes you could have 3000 brutes sign up and then randomly pick 2 and have them fight and the winner of that match would be declared champion regardless of the other 2,998 contestants.

Since you're stating you're trying to find the best brute at level 50 then you would need to round-robin EVERY brute against each other using the same 3 seeds and the brute with the best won-loss record would actually have a better claim to being the strongest brute then the current tourney format.

So if there are 50 brutes then you would need to simulate 7,350 fights.

The elimination by random seeds each round only shows who is the best for that round with no bearing on the previous rounds because the criteria has changed.

I can pretty much guarantee that once this tourney is over, I can take the final round seeds and have the champion fight against a brute that lost in the first round actually beat the "champion" with the new seeds.

Also, not even going to touch on the randomly assigning pairs for each round impacts the results because that pretty much makes this tourney purely chaos theory based.


Last edited by heroinmonkey on Mon 04 May 2009, 15:04; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestion for next tournament !   Mon 04 May 2009, 15:01

heroinmonkey wrote:
I can pretty much guarantee that once this tourney is over, I can take the final round seeds and have the champion fight against a brute that lost in the first round actually beat the "champion" with the new seeds.

maybe..

just like senegal and france in soccer .. france lost to senegal 0-1

but if france have match again with senegal , i think france will win ^_^ in soccer..

just an example
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestion for next tournament !   Mon 04 May 2009, 15:10

greenninja wrote:
just use random program that choose between 1-6 digit.. i think its fair enough

Take out 1-4 digits. The server never generates 1-4 digits. You want fantasy fights which never appear in MyBrute, do you?

If you want to simulate as close as what the actual server does, you should keep it close to what it does. The simulator isn't 100% accurate.


Last edited by ronga on Mon 04 May 2009, 15:19; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestion for next tournament !   Mon 04 May 2009, 15:18

ronga wrote:
greenninja wrote:
just use random program that choose between 1-6 digit.. i think its fair enough

Take out 1-4 digits. The server never generates 1-4 digits. You want fantasy fights which never appear in MyBrute?

If you want to simulate as close as what the actual server does, you should keep it close to what it does. The simulator isn't 100% accurate.

how do u know server never generates 1-4 digits?

please teach me how Very Happy please post it in the tutorial will u ^_^ maybe i can see other interesting in my brute

thanks anyway ronga ^_^
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestion for next tournament !   Mon 04 May 2009, 15:23

heroinmonkey wrote:
Since you're stating you're trying to find the best brute at level 50 then you would need to round-robin EVERY brute against each other using the same 3 seeds and the brute with the best won-loss record would actually have a better claim to being the strongest brute then the current tourney format.
as much as i would love to do them, its impossible due to time constraint, and we are doing our best to simulate who is the best level.50 in this tourny (who manage to signup anyway). you are not suppose to take that word literally and apply it word by word.


ill try give you a real life example: if one guy wins this tourny using the same seeds, ie 2,5,7. If im going to challenge him into a lvl.50 vs lvl.50 fight. A smart thing to do is to ask him not to use seed 2,5,7 in the fight simulator. because i know that he will most likelt to win the challenge if we are using that seeds, he have the "home"-advantage.

still dont get it? lets have another example, are you a basketball fan?
Would you challenge to play against LA Lakers in Staples Center (Los Angeles). No, right?

its the same thing challenging a lvl.50 champion brute that won in tournament that uses the same seeds (apparently that seeds is his home advantage). thats what im trying to avoid in this tourny.

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